On today's episode of survival Dispatch News we're discussing emps once again This video is brought to you by energy They're an Idaho based company that Makes some of the most rugged power Stations that we've ever laid hands on They've also won several DOD contracts Which is one heck of an endorsement on Top of which they have a focus on EMP Protection that we have not seen from Any other Power Station manufacturer Check out the link below for Energytech.com if you'd like to learn More and we're back we're joined by Nick From it's just sharp in Utah hey there Steve from anything outdoors with Steve Is that correct that's correct okay so And you're also a licensed electrician Correct yeah yes okay and and we've had A bunch of exchanges and you clearly Know a lot more when it comes to Electricity and emps than than I do and Thank you very much for coming on the Channel and sharing some of your Knowledge so we just did an episode last Week on Survival Dispatch news on emps Got a lot of comments including yourself And let's just start there and get us Started Steve All right well thank you for having me On Um as you mentioned my background is as An electrician and I'm hoping I can Clarify some of the details and some
Overlooked properties of the EMP and how The effects are mitigated on Faraday Cages and so uh we can kind of break it Down to a basic level Um my my wife always says that uh Whenever I start explaining things I go Into too much detail and she quickly Loses interest because I I get too Technical so anytime your eyes glaze Over stop me let me know I can clarify I Can re-pash out some of the stuff that We're addressing here Um so we're going to discuss emps in the The basic uh subject of it and how to Mitigate the the voltage spikes from That Um so let's see uh the EMP and CMEs so It depends on what you want to protect For are two different beasts completely EMP nuclear generated blasts have a very High voltage Spike and now we've got Things that are called super emps that It's still theoretical nobody knows what Exactly that may pertain the threats are Up to 200 000 volts per meter and yeah So that I mean the basic military Standard is 50 000 volts per meter so That's what they try to protect against And so there's three waves oh sorry go Ahead no I'm just curious what would Cause one of these super emps like what Would the potential source of that be That's going to be also a nuclear Generated okay yes so uh High atmosphere
Burst they send a weapon up into the air It explodes and what it starts doing is Uh it it sheds electrons off the atoms And cause causes a static electricity in The air and instead of like a lightning Bolt it's more of a blanket where it Just covers everything and so there's a Lot of factors that come into play with This and we'll try to discuss some of it I'll try not to jump around too much and Forget some of the stuff because I tend To do that so Um yeah I can break the EMP pulse down And I think you guys may have done that On the last episode where you've got the Three waves of the EMP pulse the E1 E2 And E3 and E1 is the initial Spike and That's starting at about five Nanoseconds and its duration starts to Mitigate off about 150 nanoseconds so It's a very short duration pulse and That's the one that has the highest Energy but um being that it's also the Hardest to uh protect against because You've got a high voltage Spike that Transfers to everything conductive so Also what You think of that as something like Being close to the epicenter essentially The distance from the center of the Blast has a huge Factor on the voltage And so we'll discuss that in a little Bit too the essentially uh distance has A squaring effect to the pressure wave
Uh just like with sound so for every Foot distance it's got a squaring effect To the decibel range and we can cover Some equations too or I I probably just Tell everybody to look them up and I'll Tell you what to look up because Um the information knowing what to look Up is more important than some of the Information in itself because then it Gives you a greater understanding of What you're actually dealing with it Makes sense and there's a lot of Information and like I said I'm going to Try to keep it as general as possible But I can go into depth with some of These as too as well but um so the E1 we Already covered five nanoseconds to About 150 nanoseconds the E2 wave uh Covers part of that already so it's Already starting well the E1 is is Um mitigating away uh so the EQ will Last up to two seconds and then the E3 Wave Um I believe that one is about let me I'm trying to think here there's a lot Of information so that'll last several Minutes so so that one has a gap between The E2 and E3 so the E2 mitigates after A couple seconds and then the E3 will Start in and so you've got a little time To deal with that but uh there's uh Devices out in the field that people Sell that will give you an alert for the E1 to tell you to turn off your main
Breaker in your house to try and Mitigate some of that because the Electrical grid is what's affected by The E3 and so everything plugged in gets That Spike so just in your opinion how Effective would those devices be I mean If if you're right at close to where our Nuclear attack is I'm assuming you Wouldn't have enough time probably to React in most circumstances and and yeah The closer you are the faster this Happens so that's only effective and and You know I have to look at it as an Electronic device itself is it protected Against the E1 Wave by itself oh great Point yeah so you don't know and so some Of these devices that people are selling As EMP Shields you just really don't Know until you have that event happen Because again the theoretical 200 000 volts per meter that's huge I mean We just don't know what that really Means until it happens so absolutely I'm Thinking to myself as well that Um there may be some confusion even at The highest levels initially that you Know what just happened You know yes before they actually Determine it was an EMP yeah your lights Go out you don't know what's going on You look at your phone several seconds Have already passed that E2 wave has Already happened and you look at your Cell phone it's dead
I mean are you thinking clear enough to Go run to your panel start opening up Breakers probably not yeah yeah so so That's where the EMP suppression kind of Comes in okay and Um but I mean you think about the the 50 000 volts is what the military standard Is what they try to protect for you know Over a hundred meter line you're looking At 5 million volts and so that in itself I mean a simple device like a a plug-in Adapter can have several meters of wire In it and so those alone are generating High voltages and it's just a simple Transformer so anything that comes into The primary goes out the secondary and That tries any device plugged into it And same with your cell phone you know Your little four inch cell phone it's Getting as much as uh 5100 volts on a 50 000 volt EMP so the device itself and Not even including the electronics Within because there's antennas charging Coils inside for the induction Chargers That you put them on all those are Receiving a higher voltage because That's a long coil of wire internal There's certain point itself too real Quick uh so if just making sure I Understand this correct you're talking About the E1 E2 E3 waves and so as You're describing I was sort of Picturing like waves coming onshore from The sea you have one and then the next
One will come and then the next one Comes and there's a gap in between Um but I guess is there a certain Duration that each lasts is that Dependent on power or is there a Standard like e1s typically are 200 milliseconds and e2s or 500 Milliseconds or is there sort of a Difference in range here that would Pertain to each it is a standard uh like I said the E1 is five nanoseconds to 150 Nanoseconds so it's very short time Period and that's mostly based on how The nuclear device works and uh nuclear Devices and we'll get into this in a Little bit too uh they're they're Running off of different frequency which Is what dictates that wavelength and how Long the duration is for each one so That has a great factor to it and that's Why solar CMEs are a completely Different beast in themselves and and so You're really inducing maybe about 5 000 Volts per meter and uh it's a way Different Um Frequency as well and frequency is a big Part of how you mitigate this so we'll Cover that in a little more extent too Um but yeah so they they do have a General rule by that frequency on how That reacts to to the length and Duration of each wave so is there a way To create an EMP for us other than a
Nuclear bomb or Uh they've got devices to do so and They're not Really Uh accurate that is the best way to put That Um because The the frequency is the biggest portion Of this and we'll discuss why and that's Why Um Some products won't work and others will Um you start looking at the military Standards and they want a continuous Shell all seams that are overlapping Have to be a continuous weld to complete No holes and all scenes are covered and There's a reason for that and that's the Frequency okay um the nuclear emps are Running at a such a high frequency and That allows it to transfer through any Small holes in a faraday cage so what Typically would work well for CME is not Going to work at all for an EMP and so That's what we have to kind of discuss a Little bit and uh CMEs are so much Easier to to protect against because You're working with a smaller voltage And a lower frequency so it's it's a lot Easier to to Really mitigate those and So simple devices will work well you Know the old garbage can that can help Against some of that stuff okay yeah So
Um You know there's I think there's a bunch Of information out there saying things You know like using wire mesh and stuff Like that on the inside of a room and Then when you and I were corresponding Offline you said that's not really Applicable for emps yes so would that be Applicable for a CME potentially but not A EMP yeah absolutely and I can go into Some of the numbers here in a little bit Too actually Um let's see like AM radio that's about A 10 kilohertz wave and so that Wavelength ends up being 30 000 meters And so we'll keep everything in meters Just to keep the math simple Um so we'll discuss how that wave length Uh is affected by the hole size of of a Faraday cage Um so you got am waves at 30 000 meters FM waves are about uh one megahertz or 300 meters in length and so you'll see How those numbers you've got 10 Kilohertz one megahertz they all keep That three number and it's is actually Two point or sorry 299 meters so it's It's I'm just rounding up to 300 making It make it easy uh cell phones when You're making a phone call is about uh One gigahertz and so that ends up being Uh 30 centimeter so now we're working Into a wavelength about like that okay And Bluetooth and Wi-Fi that's typically
Your 2.4 gigahertz and even your Microwave the the frequency inside the Microwave to cook your food is is the Same 2.4 gigahertz and that's 12 and a Half centimeters and so now we're down To there 10 gigahertz is 2.9 centimeters 50 gigahertz is 0.599 centimeters and 100 gigahertz is uh 0.299 centimeters or Uh 2.9 millimeters so uh you're yeah a Little tiny hole okay Um the rule of thumb for frequency on a Faraday cage is one tenth of the Wavelength so if you've got an EMP pulse That's generating 100 gigahertz which is Roughly what their range is so we're uh In anywhere between uh 10 to 100 Gigahertz of frequency is generated from An EMP and so the rule of thumb being One-tenth so if you're working with a 2.9 one tenth of that is 0.29 millimeter Hole is the maximum you're allowed to Stop that frequency to mitigate that Voltage so essentially you know as the Frequency Rises the size of the opening In your Faraday case just keeps Shrinking down keep shrinking down yes Okay and so that's where CMEs are so Much easier because they're working at a Lower frequency so you can have a five Inch hole with a CME and still be Protected so your dream link fence Perfect for CMEs so it just depends on What you want to prepare for now if You're looking at the nuclear blast
That's a whole different beast and now You're you might as well figure if it Holds water it can protect against most EMP pulses so you know you're dealing With small holes so take a container in Any direction that if it holds water It'll be protected and then we've got a Whole bunch of other factors included With that too but yeah so there's a Whole lot of information but it looks Like you have a question well no I was Just going to say like it's there's Always an interesting comparison between Electricity and water you know I can Remember when I was young my father Saying you know that the the garden hose With a sharp stream is like voltage Whereas the really powerful energy in a River is more like amperage sort of Thing and and I've just you're not the First electrician I've spoke to Compares Things to water I was actually thinking To myself earlier that the I looked up Some images of an EMP coming in and how It kind of envelopes things you know Like an EMP yes or a faraday cage or Something like that and it's still like Water and then of course Nick made a Comment with regards to waves of it it Just did I think it's a good way to Visualize for me at least uh the Relationship you know between all these Different things that are you know Electric
Yeah and I was kind of referring to an EMP as being more of a blanket effect Where it just covers everything you know You've got a lightning strike that's Localized to one spot this is everything So anything conductive within its path Will start accumulating this voltage and So you'll start to see things if you're Outside metal objects starting to get Little lightning strikes off of them as They're increasing this voltage because It's able to jump that air gap and so 5000 volts you can jump a one inch air Gap as it starts to build Millions it's Going to be jumping all over the place So you'll start to get a coronal uh glow Off of some metal objects that are Further from the ground until they gain Enough electricity that they're starting To jump so it'll look somewhat like a a Tesla coil as it starts to spike out Electricity through the air and then to The ground that's actually the visual That I just got that's good yes Yeah I I spent a little time when I was in College studying sound and you'd related It to it earlier and I had a thought Um one of the things we always talked About was this reflectivity in certain Materials and it's something I saw in Several of the comments I was taking Some time to read through them and People asking on okay what about
Different kinds of surfaces is it Reflective in any way and does you know Having different layers sort of of Protection or different layers of Different materials does that help you And I was thinking back to my time Studying sound and that you know if you Had a Piece of concrete or a piece of plywood Sound transferred through it differently Or it didn't over a certain depth is That similar in your you know the size Of hole can people put a layer of Aluminum or I won't say aluminum tin on A roof that might change the Effectiveness of that frequency through It or how thick a material is does that Have that same transferability that like Sound would have Yeah that's a good segue into EMP Suppression and how that is affected Um so when you're looking at EMP Suppression you're measuring this in Decibels of attenuation the basic rule Is for every 20 decibels of attenuation It'll equal to 10 times less energy in Voltage and you can look this up too There's uh the 20 log equation so all These logarithms there's a 10 log for For voltage in a 20 log for voltage and Sound pressures and so the 20 log 10 or The inverse Square law and this includes Distance as a factor as well so they Typically use that 20 log 10 rule for
Determining uh distance for speakers to Make sure that they're balanced properly And so you'll see this a lot in in large Sound setups where okay this speaker is 10 feet further from the audience than This one how many decibels do I have to Increase that one speaker to then match Other probably the same as the other Speaker that's closer so since it's an Inverse Square law distance is a big Factor in that same with the EMTs is the Distance from that pulse is a huge Factor on how much pressure it has and The reason it's inverse Square laws Think of it as a cone so from The Source It's going to be the highest and as You're traveling out that one square Becomes nine squares so now you've got You know a larger surface area but less Voltage Within that surface area and so the Further out it's got that inverse effect Because that keeps growing another layer Larger and so you can reference that Inverse Square law and utilize that in An equation to determine uh a Guesstimated volts per meter and what You want to attenuate it down to and how Many decibels are required to attenuate It down to a usable voltage that's not Going to damage your devices And uh so there's other factors that Come into play as well but uh Um the less energy on some yeah there's
Some devices that are super sensitive Like diodes and transistors that will Blow microchips that will blow with just A very minimal voltage and Um so those require a much uh more Hardened Faraday cage than uh something Like a drill motor where you know yeah You've got a long coil of wire in here But uh the insulation in that coil is Rated up to 600 volts and so it's a Little easier to drop that down to a 600 Volts instead of half a volt that you're Looking for for some of these microchips And so it doesn't require as much of a Faraday cage to get down to that voltage But you also have to keep in mind it's a Long length of wire in that motor Winding and so now you've got to add in The length of wire and how many volts Per meter that actually adds up to you So you can bring it down to half a volt But you've got 30 meters of wire and so Now you've got 1500 bolts you know Before you know it it adds up fast and And so it you just have to do the Equations and figure out okay this has An insulation property rated up for the 600 volts so how do I drop below that And that's what you have to look at to Bring the decibel rating down to Mitigate that voltage So and um But I have a Layman's question for you Sure so in the high-tech world I was
With the son and my son Microsystems Oracle for years Um larger customers with larger data Centers would have dual power conversion Units that would take the the current Coming in from the provider and flip it From AC to DC back to AC with a very Clean sine wave you know and a Consistent 120 volts and those devices Typically are you know fairly expensive Much more expensive than just a ups for Example would that provide any Mitigation or is it you know It that is what they consider an Isolation device and so you're isolating Uh and you're able to easier clean that Frequency and voltage spikes because of That isolation but it's limited as well So it's used to dealing with 10 20 30 Volt spikes where we're looking at Hundreds of thousands of volts Potentially okay and so in in a perfect World yes it'll help but uh when we're Talking emps I I'm struggling to find Any information on devices that will Actually mitigate this properly okay and You know I I was researching Um the The whole house surge protectors and Just your Standalone unit surge Protector or power strips that have the Surge protector built in and those are Using a metal Um what's it called oh I'm drawing a
Blank they're they're using uh a device Inside of it to to mitigate some of that Voltage and it'll probably come to me Here in a minute but Um So but I'm guessing just I mean Um in Central Florida of course we get Some pretty uh violent lightning and Thunderstorms yes if you followed our Channel you've probably heard me say More than once we're a first world Country with a third world power grid And absolutely our particular part of uh Florida is serviced by FPL Florida Power And lot and I don't remember what the Charge is but they will come and you Know put a so-called surge protector on Your meter outside And if you don't have that surge Protector and anything is damaged by Anything that comes through the grid Then you know they say they're not Liable for it but if you do have that Surge protector and something goes down And I haven't tested this but they say That they're willing to to replay stuff And it might be you know a fabricated Life for all I know I don't know but it They must have some belief in the Product that you know it's going to Provide some level of mitigation or Maybe not maybe they're just ripping People off I don't know but yeah and it Does it does help
Um typical surge protector the power Strips are rated in joules you'll see Those go from anywhere from 400 joules Up to 5100 joules and that's how many Volts it'll dissipate in a second okay Um and so it's it's just a The ability for it to dissipate the Spikes of energy and once it exceeds That it actually destroys the device and Then it makes anything Downstream of it Susceptible to that voltage Spike so so The higher the Joule rating on the surge Protector the better uh protection it'll Offer and so you're looking for a device That will have a high Joule rating for Lightning strikes the closer the Lightning strike is to your house again The distance uh the more energy you need To dissipate at a rapid rate and so Backing up a little bit then the the the Energy is so significant from an EMP That there's nothing out there but I Don't believe so uh the whole house Units they they change it up instead of Rating in everything by Jewels they're Going by how many amps it'll uh allow it To to dissipate and so some of the Um like the the EMP guards or whatever They call those devices for the whole House panels Um they claim up to 200 000 amps of uh Current that it can dissipate and and Again I'm not sure how accurate it is Because again it's an electronic device
And I don't know its susceptibility to An EMP on the E1 side of it not even Making it to the E3 before it fails Gotcha and so Not knowing that I can't say yes this One device will help you I do have surge Protectors on both my meter base and my House panel and my shop panel and all Three combined will help mitigate Cumulatively uh any surge that comes in So each each device even though it's Located further away for us with Far Away strike each one will help mitigate Some of that amperage and voltage spikes Coming through the line and so that Works great for something small like That and it'll even work for a CME Effect where you're not dealing with as Much voltage Spike coming in and but Really the as you mentioned on your last Video the only Surefire way is to have a Device that's not plugged into the grid And that's that's the only device that Will probably survive an EMP or some CMEs so a quick question there somebody Made a comment on the last episode that If a device had an external power supply So it just for people who don't know What I'm talking about you know you've Got a cord that you plug in and then There's a block and then there's a Usually a barrel on the other end that You plug into your device and that Person's comment was is that if
Something was plugged into the grid and It had an external power supply that the Power supply would be toast but the Device itself would survive and it seems To me like there's not enough mitigation There for something that the magnitude Of the EMP okay yeah there really isn't And so that external power supply is the Same as your Transformer packs anything With a block like this as a Transformer Pack and that's your isolation device Same with the laptop that's an isolation Device and same with that DC to AC Converter you were referring to earlier It's a energy electricity isolation Um the the downside to this is the coil Primary coil is transferring the same Voltage to the secondary just not to the Same degree and so when you're Transferring back and forth like that on The DC to AC version you're actually Mitigating some of that in each process Um that external power supply that They're referring to uh we're talking Again thousands of volts and 5000 volts We'll jump a one inch Gap so that device Having all those components inside a Case so small it'll easily jump voltage From one side to the other so the device Itself can be completely fried and it'll Still jump across and what the problem Is is it's looking for difference in Potential and so we'll discuss that in The Faraday cage as well
Um and why you need to insulate the Inside of the Faraday cage from that Difference in potential because whatever You put inside the Faraday cage has a Difference of Potential from what the Outside is receiving and so that device Has electricity jumping that Gap easily And with 50 000 volts say it's just a One meter 50 000 volt Spike it'll easily Hop that Gap and there's not a whole lot You can do and so again yeah anything Plugged in more than likely is going to Be gone and there's not a whole lot you Can do about that so I don't mean to Jump ahead but there were also some Comments on the last video uh where People had taken a metal you know trash Can whatever the case may be and then They either lined it in rubber or Cardinals or something like that so That's like decreasing the conductivity Potential what you're getting at but Probably would it be enough to to you Know protect against an E1 rubber yeah Yes rubber yes cardboard no okay uh Cardboard is essentially the same as an Air gap so it'll easily jump right Through cardboard no problem rubber is Insulated better Ceramics again are Really good Polyethylene is like those plastic Buckets yeah if you've got a continuous Shell of polyethylene and that's the key Is having a continuous shell of it so
It's got to be a complete container with No holes because that hole is an air gap And it's searching for that difference In potential and so it'll jump right From us yeah something with a threaded Lid or you know a compression yeah That's that's really useful information Thank you Steve yes yeah so like a Waterproof bag right that's set up in Rubber is that the same idea where you That takes that top and rolls it over Makes that watertight if we're going Back to that water yeah I think that's a Very thin layer so we're we're looking At something that's a little more Substantial maybe 20 mils or greater to Offer a decent uh resistance to that Electrical jump and some of those bags Uh I know you may not see them but They've got small holes in them high Voltage will jump through small holes When we're testing electrical equipment We're using what's called a mega and it Increases the voltage by a thousand Volts or more just to find those little Pin holes and insulation and if it if it Fails that test then it's a fail on that System so we've got to make sure that Whenever you're making connections on High voltage things high frequency Things that they're completely sealed And so you're doing lots of wraps of Electrical tape just to make sure that There's no pinholes for electricity to
Find a way out and the higher the Voltage the easier it is to jump through That little pinhole very interesting Protective equipment rubber gloves Whatever you're using they're rated to a Certain voltage just like what you were Talking about on your last episode Bulletproof vest is rated to a certain Caliber and so those rubber gloves uh Even though it's a layer of rubber and It's insulating it can only stop so much Voltage before it jumps through the Glove as well so some of them are rated 600 volts maybe up to a thousand volts And beyond that they can still find Little pinholes within the molecule Structure of the rubber and find a way Out So yeah it's it's scary stuff So I mean an awesome explanation of things Steve and and really appreciate the Information Um I'm assuming you know you've got uh You know some stuff already put together For your discussion points but I think Kind of like the biggest one would be What's your average person what's the Best thing that they can do Well That since we're talking the suppression Portion of it Um the really the the container that You're using
Um aluminum foil like what's in your Kitchen uh that thickness of aluminum Foil will have up to about a 90 decibel Attenuation so that's a huge attenuation For aluminum foil now given that Attenuations at about two gigahertz so Once you start getting up into the 100 Gigahertz it's less effective so it's Maybe not uh able to keep up with that So it might drop it back down to about 40 uh decibels of attenuation by the Time you get up to those levels Um so that frequency has a huge Factor Portion of this Um but uh Faraday cages are cumulative So the more layers you have it's it's a Sum of all those layers so you can have A a large Faraday Box with another Faraday Box inside so each container It's the sum of all those containers and What they're able to protect against and So that's when you start to look at Um what you really want to protect and Keeping in mind the entire electrical Grid is going to be affected so there's Some things that you're just not going To save so your TVs your air Conditioners your furnace you know some Of those devices it's just not possible To save them you can keep components of Those in a faraday cage and be able to Replace those components but even the Motor itself will have such a large Spike on the windings that it will
Probably blow through the insulation and Make that motor not usable and so you Start to add up all these devices that You have to save in a faraday cage for The potential of replacing all those and Then you run into the next issue Follow-up attack so so you start pulling Stuff out of your Faraday cages and There's another EMP pulse that goes You're you're wiped out so so you kind Of have to give it some time like maybe A few weeks before you start really Pulling stuff out of your Faraday cages And because you don't know I mean if This is a nuclear attack where they're Sending emps to disrupt the the grid They're not going to just stop at one They're going to do several so so if That's what your goal is is to prepare For that type of scenario you really do Have to say Okay this is not the one and Only attack they're probably going to Follow up with more and so you start Maybe waiting before you pull things out I mean you can pull some stuff out and Make like for communication and talk to Other people real quick and then put it Back in and close everything back up Because there could be a follow-up wave And same with that wave three that one Starts coming in for several minutes so You don't want to pull things out right Away either because that third wave will Hit and start affecting some of those
Devices as well man that's awesome Information Steve yeah Um the so yeah being additive for those Faraday cages that's the biggest help For us uh anybody that wants to save Devices putting them like I the ammo can Aspect I've got a large ammo can it's About a meter tall and keep in mind that That meter is also getting the same Voltage and so that's why you have to Have that insulation barrier from that Can to the device inside and so you're Getting 50 000 bolts on the can Everything inside has a difference of Potential it's a lot High likelihood That it's going to Arc through in Different portions of that can if it's Not insulated but um doing things like Anti-static bags inside It not only adds another layer of EMP uh Decibel rating to it but also helps Mitigate some of that to the surface of The of that bag instead of through the Item inside of it and so for every layer Like that where you can have an Insulating layer and then another Conductive layer insulating conductive Makes a huge difference and so it's more Than just the thickness of one layer It's having those multiple layers with Insulation in between each one kind of Brings that voltage around that surface Of of those layers and so it makes a Huge difference on what's being
Protected and again the device that's Being protected requires different Levels of protection so your microchips And diodes and transistors those are the Most susceptible to the even small Voltages you know five volts can take Them out and so that's where you have to Start bringing that decibel rating up to To lower the voltage and so using that Sorry using that square No I was just thinking in terms there Were some comments and questions Previously on this very topic and I was Just thinking to myself what would be You know doable For the average person without breaking The piggy bank so if if we had this this Uh metal uh container ammo can whatever The case may be that was properly sealed And then inside of that we had something That was rubber that was properly sealed And then we were protecting a ham radio Let's say that was inside of a faraday Faraday bag inside of that that's just That doesn't sound too unreasonable for The average person to put together no And and really you can you can use Inexpensive materials as long as they're Properly sealed properly conductive Between all the gaps all the seams Um using something like aluminum tape Where you can tape up the seams and make It a continuous uh product throughout so Using that aluminum foil Theory but you
Also have to keep in mind it's got to be Durable too because if you poke a Pinhole in it or sliding it around on The floor you're going to tear some of That and so you want it to be durable as Well and but sealing up all those little Pin holes is is key to having a proper Faraday cage for the high frequencies And um and then multiple layers again You know that's that's really helpful Um but there's different devices that People have talked about using like Microwaves and a microwave that's Running about 2.4 gigahertz that's kind Of like the magic number for everything So you look at this the mesh on the door Of that microwave and you can see the Hole size and yeah and so that's that's Effective for that 2.4 gigahertz and Um but when you start going to the Higher frequency it's no longer Effective so people think oh I'm going To put my stuff in a microwave and close The door it'll be great for a CME not so Good for EMP okay and and those That needs to be an understanding when When what you're wanting to protect once You understand that it's not protected Because that frequency so it it again Falls back on what you're trying to Prepare for and you know we're Not imminent for a nuclear attack but It's a lot closer than what it could Have been a few years ago and so you
Know it's it's looking like you want to Start protecting more and more devices And And so that's when you start looking at That list of devices you want to protect And so you want to make a list of Critical components or critical devices And communication tends to be one uh Power Generation solar panels Um Really uh gas generator if you got an Ability to make a room that's EMP proof And you can use uh inexpensive product Like just a boiled barrier I mean it's This is actually perforated to allow Moisture through but if you do two Layers of that or the foam board with The aluminum coating on it you start Adding up layers like that where the Exterior has that foam board with taped Up seams again you have to tape up those Seams tape up the nail holes tape up Everything but um once you do that and Have a continuous shell of just foam Board which isn't horribly expensive you Know you're maybe twenty dollars a sheet For one inch foam and it doesn't have to Be super thick foam just you're looking At that aluminum layer it's nice having The added insulation if you're putting It on a structure but Um it's kind of second hand if you're Looking at EMP protection so if you had Uh you know one or multiple all these
Folding solar panels that you know Typically are used with a portable power Station and it wasn't plugged into Anything it would still be vulnerable uh There was a person on YouTube that had Made himself an EMP generator and put Things in this generator to test he put In a laptop and and a solar panel and an Unplugged solar panel survived his EMP Generator now we don't know what voltage That's dealing with what okay frequency That's dealing with so I'd like to be Able to say that it could survive but Keep in mind the solar panel is Essentially diodes yeah and so you get a Reverse current across those diodes and It takes them out and so being unplugged Is huge I mean that's the biggest Factor Because that length of cord going from One panel to the next to the next to Your Um to your uh charging controller that Length is huge because we're talking More than a meter so 50 000 volts will Take out a solar panel and Um but the diodes within those solar Panels are susceptible to the EMP pulse As well and I would love to be able to Say that sure it'll survive but I really Don't have an answer for that whether or Not it actually will Um I personally would uh using Inexpensive materials whether it's foam Board or foil wrap or anything like that
Making a continuous shell around a Structure Put things in that structure in an EMP Faraday bag whatever it may be that you Create inside that structure as well and I'd be willing to say Um your outside foam board with the Aluminum coating Uh do the inside with foil wrap Um I mean this is inexpensive product Too I mean you can get a fairly large Roll of it for a few hundred dollars and And cover a small structure really Inexpensively that way and and maybe for A 500 investment have a an eight by Eight shed that's completely protected And put your generator in there put some Power tools whatever big one because Nobody really thinks about the power Tools and right and different Electronics that you don't use daily and So that's when you start getting into This other issue is daily use items that You don't want to continually open and Close these Faraday cages for daily use Items you want them to kind of remain There so if you have extra devices to Put just for that scenario and that's Actually your biggest expense of having The extra devices extra circuit boards And extra parts to replace things that Do get destroyed I'm just thinking in Terms of you know the tech world where You know for uh you know Disaster
Recovery planning we always preach to People to have backups of your backups Yeah absolutely uh you know it seems Applicable here as well So how about one of the big shipping Containers that's all metal and maybe Welding some seams on it and yeah um They've all got vents on them for Pressure uh so they've got these Pressure vents so it as it's changing Temperatures it's changing pressure so So you kind of have to have some sort of Venting still so when it warms up it Doesn't just pop but you have to close All those vents up and and maybe doing Just a little uh pressure valve that Remains closed until the pressure Changes in both directions so you've got A pressure valve that's usually sealed But again you want to have another cage Inside of that so let's go low-tech I Mean what happens if you dig a hole That's Five foot deep and you put your stuff in There and put put the five you know Footed dirt back on top of it you know Yeah where does that how does that work Okay so so ground highly conductive Ground uh there's there's uh a way to Meter between two ground rods that you Drive into the ground and put a meter Across and see how conductive it is if It's down around 1 ohm that's highly Conductive so this highly conductive
Ground uh will offer about 30 decibels Of attenuation and so you can add that Into your equation as well What's that not enough on its own not Enough on its own but you put a metal Box underground you're adding that 30 Decibels on top of 40 to 80 decibels and Now you're into this 120 decibel range Where you can protect against a 200 000 Volt per meter Em peoples okay I'm just gonna ask you For that guideline so if if these you Know if if that upper echelon that 200 000 volts is actually you know possible Yeah I was going to ask what so what Level of protection in decibels do we Need to get to is it 120 Yeah so the equation is every 20 Decibels is a 10 factor of reduction so Your 200 000 decibels with uh 20 Decibels of attenuation you're now down To 20 000 decibels and so if the next 20 Decibels or sorry I meant volts right Volts per liter so the next 20 decibels Will drop it down another uh down to What was that 2 000 volts per meter so so at 40 decibels You're down to 2000 volts per meter so It really does have a big factor Um on that Faraday cage and how many Layers you have too Um but ultimately for a 200 000 uh volt Per meter EMP you're looking at Um what would that be about two volts
Per meter at 80 decibels or 0.2 volts at 120 decibels so so that's what you're Looking at is trying to get that number As small as possible and and then again Keep in mind there's a coil of wire in Here so that 0.2 volts on a one meter Length of coil now you're getting that Back up again but Um for a lot of the electronics they Probably will survive that 0.2 volts um The military standard being the 50 000 Volts they like to do 80 decibels of Attenuation to drop it down to half a Volt to have their equipment survive so They're looking for that half bolt Spike Per meter and keep in mind that is per Meter so so it's half a volt per meter Of any conductive materials within this EMP cage so even though you're dropping That around the shell that huge voltage Spike you're still getting voltage Inside and so that's I I would say if You're looking at attenuating a 200 000 Volt per meter uh EMP pulse look at About 120 decibel attenuation and so we Already discussed foil being 90 decibels So two layers of oil you're 180. you Bury that foil underground 30 decibels Underground and now you're at 120 so You're good to go for 200 000 volts and That'll drop it down to the 0.2 volts And so most items within it will survive And fantastic that's an understandable Like that's in terms that you're
Actually like me that can understand it I know and it's beautiful that it works In powers of tens and twenties like that 20 decibels 10 volt uh 10 times less Voltage so it works out well and same With that frequency you know we were Working with a factor of three so for Every Next Level so you're going from 10 to 100 it's it's dropping that tenfold Again so so Um that increase of frequency is making That hole size that you have to drop Down and that hole size is a factor of 10 as well so if your wavelength is Three millimeters you have to drop that Hole size 10 of one tenth of that so 0.3 So it makes all the math pretty easy and It just works out well doesn't it Anytime you can save me from having to Use a calculator is a good thing yeah All day long So uh Steve do you have you know I know You do uh survival stuff prepping stuff In addition to being an electrician Um what would your list look like of of Devices that you feel it needs to be Protected yeah that's that's where it Becomes difficult Um today's day and age uh we kind of Take for granted a lot of things and so Even you know you look back 30 Years Photos you know you printed out all your Photos you had film you took photos on
So all those Family Photos they're now All digital and doing something as Simple as putting it on a Blu-ray disc Or DVD this is EMP proof you can leave It out on the desk drawer it doesn't Matter everything's contained within This as long as you've got a device to Read it then you still have your photos So then you're just looking at Protecting uh a DVD Rider or burner or Whatever it may be or a laptop that's Got one built in or a computer and so You build that room that Faraday cage to Protect those devices that can read Information and so information is huge Uh books you know go back to books Instead of everything electronic I've Got a series of books and I was going to Bring one out as a prop but I kind of Ran out of time but it's essentially how To live the old way of life because People have kind of forgotten that lost Art and that lost skill and so the Modern day you don't need it you're Going You're not practicing it so that Is very important for for really helping You through a situation like this until If things even come back so if you're Looking at an EMP strike being a nuclear Attack you really don't know and so the Entire electrical grid Pretty much will be right wiped out the Communication grid same thing so all That all that stuff is gone so you're
Even looking at um Fuel pumps water supplies you know all This stuff is going to be affected and And uh so there's only so much that you Can do you can't protect everything and It I read them I read somewhere that Um Both parties the uni party whatever you Want to call them these days over the Years have proposed legislation to Protect the power grid from emps and Other numbers throwing around like five Billion dollars what's in the grand Scheme of things is is not abuse but Nobody has actually taken action on that Correct there's probably all kinds of Political reasons for that but from a Practical standpoint Is it even a possibility to absolutely It is yeah yeah there's there's a way to Protect the entire grid but it is Expensive Um some of the numbers I was looking at Was maybe around the 300 million for a Localized grid and there are some I Think there was a place in Utah that Actually did accomplish that and I'd Have to look it back up because I don't Have the information off the top of my Head but there is a place in Utah that Actually did have some EMP protection And I don't know to what level they've Got it protected so that's another Question that's kind of up in the air
You don't know how much protection you Need for one or how much it's able to Withstand and um so Um that Faraday cage is huge Um having a device that opens and is Able to not only quench an electrical Arc because it can jump a big gap in air But if you've got like fuses they are Typically filled with sand to quench That Arc so even on a high amperage Arc Going through this fuse after it blows The fuse it's able to quench that Arc And so they're able to include devices Like that within a power grid to open up And not allow it to destroy a Transformer before it does and so that's Important what kind of voltage per meter Would your average Faraday bag be able To withstand you know measured in Decibels uh your standard Faraday bag uh It depends on the bag of course and uh The standard I think is about 40 Decibels wow is the extenuation of a Faraday bag so you put that Faraday bag Into another Faraday cage and you start Adding that up so not really off on its Own essentially no no and then see uh Faraday bags that are made out of a Woven mesh metal like this and that'll Work for CMEs and it won't work for emps So so that is another thing to make sure That you understand it if you're Planning to protect against and CMEs do Happen and they're more likely I would
Say than than an EMP but maybe not today I mean it's changing daily so but I'm Under the impression that uh you know The average prepper feels that if they Buy you know a faraday bag and throw Something in it like a ham radio that They're covered and it's interesting That it's not it's you need a layered Approach you you really do Um yeah unfortunately uh I I look at Some of these EMP bags and even like the Simple static bags that electronics are Shipped in you roll up the edge you've Got a good at least 20 decibels of Attenuation in that bag itself and so That'll help dissipate a lot of the Energy around it but the electronics are Still susceptible within that so it's Great for you know you're walking around You build up a static charge you touch The bag it dissipates that energy and so The electronics are still good but Right would a mylar bag qualify as the Same thing yes yeah so you've got it a Mylar bag that you can put items in and Again you want to insulate the item Within it and Even even just an air gap is helpful so If you wrap it in fabric it that acts as An air gap so that's helpful as long as You've got it within another EMP bag or Box or container and then another one Around it so each time you do that Layering and you have at least one
Really good insulating layer you're Reducing that likelihood of a electrical Arc shooting through that device so Mylar bags are pretty cheap so I've just Absolutely thinking in my mind you know That you you take a ham radio yeah and And you put it in a faraday bag that you Put in a mylar bag that you put inside Of an ammo can and you're starting to Rack up some decibels now absolutely Yeah yeah and the mylar bag is just as Good as any uh EMP bag that you buy on The market too so it really is a fairly Decent uh resistance to some of that Voltage Yeah that's really interesting because We we do some freeze drying and stuff Like that yeah same a company just sent Us these huge uh five gallon mylar bags And my wife and I've been scratching our Heads thinking what on Earth you put in A five gallon mylar bag well you put it In a five gallon bucket and you fill it Full of rice there you go yeah Yeah because really that's what you're Trying to keep out is oxygen for food so That's what you're doing is you seal up That five gallon mylar bag inside a five Gallon bucket and you really are Mitigating that oxygen approach to it And throwing oxygen absorbers of course But yes it makes a big difference Man that that's absolutely amazing Steve Is there anything else you want to add
Before we we wrap up here I mean this Has just been an awesome uh day at School for me Well um Yeah we were kind of touching on what to Put in and different devices that work Well as emps Faraday cages simple things Like a paint can you know as long as You've got that lid that you have to Hammer on yeah at uh at two gigahertz That offers about uh 85 decibels of Attenuation wow but keep in mind we're Looking at maybe levels higher than two Gigahertz yeah so so uh EMP can be Anywhere from 10 10 gigahertz up to 100 Gigahertz so so it starts reducing that Decibel attenuation as well but that can Be an added layer and it's inexpensive So you can put something inside a paint Can inside another Cage of some sort or another container And just start adding it up Um a 55 gallon drum with that friction Clamp ring that you can open and close That allows you to get into the Container easily I'm looking at two of Them yeah yeah so that that's it's a Steel container so it's not as Conductive as aluminum uh so that's Maybe down to around 75 decibels at two Gigahertz of of uh frequency Um but I mean it's helpful so all those Are helpful layers and so when you start With the large container like that you
Start putting a smaller container within It and you know propping it up off the Bottom so you've got a decent air gap or A decent um uh insulator around it for The next container within you're getting Some really high decibels of attenuation With these Faraday cages that will make The items within more than likely to Survive and so some of those layers are Really important that's why it's kind of Going towards the room approach because You can get some cheaper materials and Like I was saying you know just your Aluminum foil being about 90 decibels of Attenuation at the two gigahertz that is A really inexpensive material uh copper Being higher conductivity will offer Even a greater protection so the Conductivity of the item itself that You're using as a faraday cage makes a Big difference and that's why the 55 Gallon drum is a little bit lower than Aluminum foil you know something simple Like that as you're describing each of These things I keep thinking back to Target hardening you know so I had an Office that was broken into many many Years ago and there was a quite a bit of Equipment that was stolen out of that Office and so the detective that I spoke To at the time he said you know he gave Me a whole list of things said do all of These things because I'm looking at Y'all's neighbors here and they don't
Have any of this stuff so the bad guy's Going to show up and he's going to look At yours he's going to see cameras all Over the place bars on the Windows Multiple layers at each doorway so you Got a steel door followed by another Cage door behind it and you're just Gonna give up and say I'm going to go Take that easy target over there so I'm Just thinking in terms of layering like Target hardness kind of a similar Principle and something as simple as a Spot for them to hide close to the Structure to where if a car comes by They can hide behind a bush real quick You know that makes a big difference too Yeah but you're exactly right it's it's It's all those additive layers keeping Things away from your front door like a Hammer and a shovel so they can easily Pry it open makes a difference too I Mean it's an opportunity so you look Around and you see all these Opportunities near your house of what You can used to hammer in a door my wife Leaves out these t-post drivers right Next to the front door I'm like what are You doing this is a two-handled Battering ram I mean one blow and you're In But she doesn't think the same way so so It's it's nothing to her it's like oh I'm just making it easy for tomorrow so I can just grab it again and go back to
Work it's an interesting topic though Because you know we have some uh bushes Some shrubs around the windows of our House that have these brutal thorns on Them and yeah those are great there's a Type of palm tree that we have in Florida called a robellini and they've Got spikes on them this long and they're Full of poison and they will mess you up And I've put them in front of Windows in Several properties just a little bit Like that it's going to discourage Somebody from even looking in the window Let alone trying to break through it Yeah and so when you compare that Property versus the one that's got the Battering ram next to the front door I'm going there I mean look at them They're not even cleaning up after Themselves so the likelihood of having Easy access to things within the house Is going to be even greater so I have a Request Eve sure I would like to Schedule a a follow-up episode of Survival Dispatch news on this topic of Target hardening because clearly it's an You know thing that you have a level of Awareness over and it's an awesome topic Um Yeah I agree with you like the Defcon Level keeps getting worse but chances Are still probably higher that Somebody's going to break into your House or something along those effects I
I'd love to do an episode with you on Target hardening Nick as well and some Of our other guys I think that's a Fascinating topic and and uh lots of Input there so okay well and and it Falls right in line with EMP hardening Because after an EMP pulse people are Going to start hitting the streets you Know there's nothing left to do in your House you're not on your video games Anymore you're not watching TV all day Long and you're starting to get hungry So you're going to start going house to House to find out what other people have And that's very important to keep in Mind as well I'd like to give credit Where credit is due and I think it was Chris weatherman The Angry American Who said to me we are never more than Three missed meals away from Anarchy Absolutely it's one of those comments You know somebody makes a comment and it Just sticks with you that one has really Stuck with me Um so I just want to remind everybody That your YouTube channel is anything Outside with Steve uh anything outdoors With Steve anything outdoors with Steve I'm going to put that link down in the The description If there are things you think that People should uh you know study up on Their own if you don't mind sending us Some links we'll put those in the
Description as well yeah I think do you Just look at some of those uh equation Factors uh like the square root factors You know some of those things here are Easy to look up and it'll give you a Really good Baseline to to understand What you're looking at for for Mitigation but just using those simple Rules you you figure it out real fast on What you need to do but uh maybe if you Don't mind uh maybe if you you could Send those to me offline like the basic Equations that we've covered so I don't Make any mistakes I want to make sure we Pass on accurate information to our Audience and uh you know everybody who's Watching this go check out Steve's Channel Um if you need to sharpen your knife Make sure you go check out uh Nick's Nick's website it's just shark And I appreciate y'all's time coming on Here One last thing I would I would implore People to make a critical list of Components they they do want to kind of Protect and go over that and see what's What's viable to save I mean even simple Items like lifepo batteries or lithium Batteries they've got built-in circuitry That people don't think about and so Components like that that you want to Survive an EMP that's what you're Looking at protecting and and so make a
List of what's important what critical Use items you may have in your daily Life that you want to survive I'll be Honest I had not even thought of Protecting pictures and whatnot Steve I Mean that wasn't on our list uh it is I Know I I'm always kind of oriented Family First and some of those things That you just don't think about that you Kind of expect to always be there Gone yeah so I don't have backups so I Foresee that we'll probably put an Article up on survivaldispatch.com With some suggestions and people can use A checklist I'd like to get that up There as well sure really look forward To discussing Target hardening with you And you know we'll wrap up there for Today but really really appreciate you Coming on Steve that was extremely Educational Thank you yeah thank you for having me Absolutely well hopefully we have you Back again soon okay So for everybody watching uh check out The description below there'll be all Kinds of extra information down there uh If you haven't subscribed to our Channel Please do so click the notification Bell Comment share all those things help with The algorithm and uh thank you for Following survival Dispatch news Foreign
