Foreign [Music] Er white and I've spent the majority of My life working in the outdoors as a Soldier Outdoorsman and guide many years Ago I came to a crossroad in my military Career I felt like I was at the point Where I was no longer able to learn About survival from the military so I Searched and I watched as many new shows Popped up like Dual Survival Survivorman And others shows that partnered seasoned Soldiers with primitive living Instructors I watched experienced Soldiers who had amazing skills with Tools fall short without them and I had To look deep within myself and ask why So realizing that something was missing In my training I then formulated a plan I set out to find people with these Skills in my area to find out who they Were where they come from who taught Them and more importantly how could I Learn and master these skills for myself This journey has led me to a place where I have had the privilege of teaching These things that I love to others Skills that now range from Advanced Navigation to primitive fire this is my Journey to primitive this is my story Yeah it's a story that has never really Been about me [Music] A knife is an important
Portable Uh Tool That helps in many ways Primarily perhaps to help you light Fires Um And and people have no idea Uh what you want in a knife the knife is Unobtrusive not very cumbersome And when people it took many years for Me to to come up with the statement I Said a survival knife Must be a prime pry bar That works wood really well Implying that is strong enough a pry bar Is meant to pry A pilot hopes to carry a knife On them when he crashes Has to cut himself over the cockpit Will the knife Stand that type of abuse So the knife that's indestructible It's A Full Tang And thick enough and as a result you Could complaint of some people who don't Know you know they their interest in Knives and these study knives as they See all the other knives and uh they Don't realize that they've not been Schooled in how thick the blade is so You can't break it Like that K bar that we that was issued To the soldiers in the second world war
If I if I hit it like like this it's all It's broken that's all I had so so a Knife that's issued to a soldier in Combat that is a A very poor uh it was so fragile because The Tang Narrows down and the guard is On there and then it goes through the Handle and there's a and they're at that That juncture it was very fragile and Vulnerable And anyway you realize that uh the knife That you're carrying is probably Primarily Working wood feather sticks You know whatever you want then I build The ski shoe will it peel the Stick effectively If you need to all the things if if you Peel a stick a green stick In a remarkable short time like a couple Days it dries out And it's half the weight And it's less noodly when it dries out It becomes stiff You leave the bark on and it it sort of Doesn't have much rigidity so there There is a reason to peel the bark so You can reduce the the the So appealed excuse you is half the Weight of an unpeeled ski shoe so You can cut down a tree the thickness of Your wrist and that thickness And Below yeah you can virtually build The lean to like that those bowls laying
There you can actually Cut down those bowls if you can't bend It then you use a baton But all you need is a jack Pine a Jackpot you need a A pocket knife to cut down Things thin enough to make an arch type Shelter which is freestanding and the Easiest way to throw a piece of plastic Or piece of canvas or whatever to create A roof and on and on so you uh You find that uh The neat thing is that the maker of this Knife is here Rod Garcia from Whitefish Montana My name is Rod Garcia and I live in Montana And started taking classes with karamat Back in about 2002 something like that And took three different classes took Two winter courses and one summer course And uh Was very much inspired watching uh Morse Kohanski work with the little 12 more Knife it kind of blew my mind as a lot Of people would say uh you know I came From the the old school of Rambo you Know the big knives with all the saw Teeth in the back and all that and when I got to class and the first day Watching Morse uh cut up materials and Make you know backpack frames and Netting needle boards and all kinds of Things like that from this small little
Knife it kind of hit me pretty hard and It made me realize that skill is Incredibly important in this whole Process you can't have a Magic Bullet And after those classes uh progressed I Turned out to be a stay-at-home dad and After several years of changing diapers And wanting to move on in life as far as Work goes because the kids were getting Old enough so that I could get more time Away and actually get a job As a side note I wanted to find a knife That Morris had described in his book in Bushcraft and uh I happened to be down In Missoula during a knife show and one Of the guys that was running the knife Show knew me we had taken some other Classes together and I told him what I Was looking for I said there's this There's this type of knife that this guy Explains in his book and he said well go Look around there and see what you can Find and as the case may be I didn't Find what I was looking for and he Happened to be a knife maker and he said Well I'll tell you what if you want Let's uh let's get together sometime on My shot maybe we can put something Together so that kind of put the seed in My head about you know maybe making a Knife and since I couldn't find one and So about a year later we got together And got out into a shop and cut out some 1095 and played around and I just was
Trying to get an idea of just the Process and so we put a knife together It was kind of an interesting deal Because he worked at a at a sawmill and Uh We were going at it till about two O'clock in the morning and we're getting To the point of putting a butt plate on There and he didn't know how to weld he Says I know a guy that does and so we Went over to one of the local sawmills There in the Flathead Valley and it's Pretty cool that you can show up in one Of these places and at three o'clock in The morning find the guy who's on the Late night shift and says yeah come on In Let's uh let's weld this thing up So we did that and I finally got it all Put together and it was pretty much a Piece of junk it was the first one But I got this little bug in my head I Thought you know maybe I can do Something with this and so I started Playing with the idea and I ended up Selling a car to I still you know start Financing The tooling and so that kind of got the The ball rolling I got more into morse's Book and his section on knives and I Started taking the the concept and the Parameters that he laid down as far as The basic width and this and that and I Started putting pen to paper and started Drawing it out and as the process went I
Was starting to accumulate some tools I Got a grinder first and playing along With that and had some other people do Welding for me different things but I Came up with about 10 or 12 knives Before I got something that was pretty Good that I thought would maybe be uh You know something that somebody might Like and uh So I ended up sending up uh well Actually you know before that I went to Rat root rendezvous at karamat at about 2006 as I recall and I had one of my Knives and I just had it sitting on a Table because I was showing some of the Students and Morris hadn't gotten into a Camp yet in that evening he showed up And uh saw that knife there and I was Kind of talking with somebody and uh Grabbed that and said okay who did this Where'd they find this and I kind of Meekly raised my hand and said well I Did Morris and uh so he said well this Is the concept that I'm going with in my Book I say I know that's kind of where I Was looking for and I told him the story I said you know I've been trying to find A knife that fit that And I decided I'd just go ahead and make It so we sat down and discussed some Things he was kind of excited about it Which you know was was neat because it It kind of made me feel good about what I was doing and we talked about some
Different things and and a few little Changes here and there and so I went Back to Montana after that uh that Meeting and that winter I produced some More knives I did some testing I broke a Few just see what was going on with that Because I was still in the learning Process as far as the The heat treat different things by that Time I did have the heat treat oven and So I came up with five more knives and I Sent them up to Morris and it kind of Coincided with the winter course that he Was putting on The size of the knife you would say that This is four fingers but if you had a Knife like in Sweden called the Floyd Knife it would be Um Two fingers A nine 90 percent of all you were you Working survival that's what you really Need the light handle is is starts there Everything is close to the effort the Heart you know everything and so you you End up getting the effect so most people Think they know something about knives But they don't realize if you use the Knife Sufficiently long and whatever you'd if Someone like you know I must I'm trying To out I can try to educate you and so On and pretty soon you would realize uh What you're looking for
And and on and on so it goes from the Size of the knife it's indestructibility And the variation on the knife is the Hole that lashes through a stick in a uh To use as a sickle Lang handle this goes To cut the grass to use for insulation And actually you can do a lot of cutting By having that handle and in in Britain For sure Amongst the the uh emollient Balsam as They call it we we call it uh popcorn Plant and in amongst it it's nice and Green but you don't see in there the Concertina wire they call Briar in there And it won't allow you to move unless You chop it chop it up And having a long handle you got the Speed And you know last thing that I would say Well let's put a long handle to make it Into a spear to stab a bear and maybe if You've got that problem uh I never have Had the requirement to stab a beer be it Bear what makes the knife Usable is the configuration allows you To put an Exquisite Razor's Edge on it And this scandi grind and the fact of Continuous curvature seemed to Participate in in uh in doing that In the back of the blade is so square And sharp that you can scrape up fine uh Shavings And it gives me the opportunity to take A metal match rod
And it gives you a the strikers that They often uh A company the metal matcher is so Inadequate but this corner when I strike It it lights the carpeting on Fire or The grass on fire and it makes people Are amazed well they don't realize that The amazement is connected to the fact That those two and yet when you got the Knife sitting there and a knife maker it Comes and oh it looks at it don't you Think it's kind of heavy well It indicates the questions that they ask Just haven't used the knife sufficiently To know what sort of A lighter knife a lot of people think When I get to know the students and they Bring weird knives they'll say what do You think of this knife and if I feel That I don't want a bad mouth of a Paying student but I say and seriously You realize that that designed a knife A snap it was just all I have to do is You know put it in a circumstance and Give it a jerky both in the broken off The knife well if you want durability You know maybe you shouldn't abuse your Knife but if you're trapped in a cockpit Of an airplane you appreciate the fact That no matter what you do you're not Going to break the blade yeah and then On top of that I would purposely go out And abuse I would hammer the biggest Nails I could drive into a board just to
See how much I would damage well this Micarta situation uh it's you could do That for you you know a lifetime and People would hardly see that that There's any damage and then the plate Here was well the hole here and the Plate here Uh that's two features that you Generally you're striving to Make your knife unique So the hole there the then usually I Like three holes and the plate Welded on and the the you know the size I would say I've used this knife to the Extent that in spite of all of its Features I I am Not far wrong that if you choose this as A survival knife that they won't come Back and curse me But I see In some catalogs I see these weird nice They are not really the asset test of a Knife carve a netting needle And a shuttle In fire you know the netting needle in Five minutes if your knife doesn't allow You after the tenth needle to be carving That needle in five minutes Your knife is not up to a knife that Should be considered the woodworking Aspect of your survival kit Though um And then you drive your knife into a
Tree Sufficiently That you can stand on the handle and if You weigh 300 pounds try to break the Knife if the knife doesn't break well Why do why would I do that well Humanity Behind the people that have sort of said That why would I do that abuse my well You asked me to see what how do you Describe the durability of that of that Knife And Rod He was you know so to say you know that That hole that's drilled there which you Stick the knife into a stick of the Right kind you make a notch and then you Stick a nail in there and you can keep Cutting short pieces of wood until the Cows come home and the last time I did a Lot of that was I the kids making Whistles and Recorders and I would have To cut hundreds of plugs because they Got to pick the plugs and keep trying Them until they fit perfectly because if They don't if they are too small they Fall out if they're too big they crack The pipe which is a fragile pipe made Out of comparison and so on well sort of That's only the Practical use For putting a nail in there well when People go up and you know if you use the Skin of mousse you're going to get Listeria well everybody comes people Says you know hanging your knife around
The neck you're gonna one day hang Yourself Well you Know maybe it happens once and in 30 Years but that's not my concern there's Other reasons why I have the knife Around my neck And uh well one reason is anybody that Wears a knife around their neck might Have a connection with me Because they pick up why Why do you do that well I picked it up From these nurses There was a survival episode where I Ended up teaching 600 nurses and they All seem to be carrying the scissors and Their knives around their neck and so I Said well you know what well they said The native people we know don't have Belts And they tend to carry their knives so They sort of naturally since they're Kind of like You know good people to emulate so they Carry out so I adopted and I said oh I I Did some filming once three days of Filming and as we review the filming Everything I do I take my knife out of Here do my stuff and I go there Instead of going here the film crew who Are watching somebody said you probably Saved an hour each day for the fact that Your neighbors around your neck and You're not searching here maybe your
Seat down there and the other thing is If your sheath is here you're not as Conscious as its presence here so you're Less apt to lose it And then the Camping Club of America or A prestigious group in in the East they Happen to have a habit of carrying their Knives and some people said oh you must Have got that from the Camping Club of America whatever the title is they even Had their own flag And I say oh did you get that there and I didn't I wasn't aware they told me I Could have lied and said yeah I got it But so he brought those knives out During the class And or at least one of them and there Was a student there from Holland who Took pictures of it And was a member of a private forum And when he got done with that class He posted pictures of that onto the Forum And so that kind of got some interest on That but a side note to that is about That same time you know I've been Waiting several weeks to hear back from Morris on you know these knives that I Sent up well I never heard back from I'm Kind of thinking what the heck you know I send these knives up there and he's Never getting back to me well literally That day I got a call from a writer Named Dan sheckman who wrote for
Tactical knives and he said okay Morris Tells me you have a really good knife Here's the deal I want to write an Article about it but if I do it can Either make or break you as far as knife Makers go so you have to decide right Now what you want to do and taking on The challenge I said what the heck so I Sent him a couple of knives discussed You know a little bit about the Background and how that went and that Process got started Uh but then Morris called me up a few Days later he just happened to be up in The Northwest Territories working with a School up there and we got talking again About it and I thanked him profusely for You know telling this individual about My knife and the compliments that he Gave for that and uh so that was kind of A neat conversation to have with him but Then About another week later I get a get an Email from a guy who was running the The Forum the private forum and he said There's some individuals here that say That you are a knife maker which at that Time I really didn't consider myself one I didn't even have all my tooling I had No idea where this was going to go and I Didn't have my process down but uh Anyways he said if you would like to Come on this forum I'm officially Inviting you over but just you know we
Kind of keep things low-key here and This is a private forum and uh so I said Well okay sure I'll go check that out so He gave me the password and everything Got in there and I found the thread Where this individual from Holland had Mentioned my knife and that was many Pages long which was a bit of a shock And it was kind of entertaining reading Through the lines on you know who is This guy where is he from and we don't Know does he have a phone number where's His business website all these things And like I said I hadn't even gotten to That point let alone producing enough Knives I got down through the thread and I found one post that said here he is And I looked down there and there was a Screenshot from Google of my house And I called my wife over and I said Look at this it was a little bit Disconcerting you know so it made me Realize that the world kind of shrunk Down real quick that day but anyways off That forum is when the first order Started up and uh people were very Interested in it and it was kind of nice Because it was a good group of people And that they they gave me some you know Feedback and there's a few little issues That came up with you know with most Knife makers I'm sure you know will find When they first get started and I had to Tweak a few things and change up a few
Little uh you know difference in the Pattern but anyways by that time uh Orders started coming in from that group Well then the article came out from Tactical knives and of course that's That's history as they say it just kind Of took off from there and so I've been Pretty much swamped the final product is Is this And uh Ended up coming with that And so the basic concept that Morris Came up with was to have something that He uses a term that's kind of it's just Right it's not too long it's not too Short we came up with the idea that Basically the blade The blade is about uh you know hand Width same thing with a handle area Where you're gripping one of the things That he wanted to have done was to have A Pummel plate put on the back and the Main part for this is for pounding into Trees but also for you know for cutting A tree down you can take a knife about This size and if it's strong enough in The back end you can take down small Trees about that big big around and the Idea behind that is that if you're out In the woods and you happen to you know Get lost or you have to build a quick Shelter is that you need to have a ridge Pole to do a lean lean to and by taking This knife and if the tree is set up
Like this You're going to pound it in and then You're going to work it back and forth Pull it out and you'll just keep doing That repeating that process all the way Around the tree and by the time you get To the other side there's not much left In the middle and you just push it over And so it's a pretty handy tool this one Also has a a divot in here for running a Bow drill this is something that Kelly Harrelson came up with and asked me About and we figured that out quick and Decided to put that in there as an Option The main points of the knife are Obviously the butt plate also the two Lashing holes here this is to put onto a Stick but it's not necessarily for Making a spear it's uh for using it Almost like a scythe if you're having to Cut grass give you reach if you're in The Northern Forest where you've got Birch trees it gives you reach so you Can reach up and and cut through the Bark to pull off birch bark to be making Tools or you know different bowls and Things like that basically I use three Different types of Steels o1 A2 and 3v I Found those to be a pretty good Compromise across the board Also use the you know obviously the Scandinavian grind and which works Really good for carving but also for
Making feather sticks it's one of the Critical points of Bushcraft and being In a you know hopefully not ever happen But in a survival situation I find that This type of grind probably gives you The best feather sticks because of the Flat face and also the fact that it's Probably six seven hundred years old Vikings started building this basic Knife something similar to that a long Time ago and if it worked that long I Figured it'd probably work good for us Too so Yeah well uh I tell people I say look at that take a Picture of it if you're wondering Compare this configuration which is uh Sharp corners on the back scandi grind Continuous curvature you ignore the hole You got holes in the handle I hadn't seen gar Rod Garcia I was going To suggest why are you making rivets When maybe you put three holes to take The rivets well there's three rivets Well three holes instead of making Um So many holes so putting the the brass Liner in there and the epoxy is Sufficient to keep the the an 80 and Then he etches MK on the knife that Means Morris kohanski That is uh that he's got a inside of a Roycroft back frame etched on there and Then he says MK well the the Skookum
And it made credit sensation when it Came you know out in the public and a Lot of people figured I designed it but I said no Rod would keep coming on the Courses and each time he brought a Prototype and I saw the Prototype which Is Rod has got the professional Equipment to make a knife that way Rod Was a House painter Who's married to a lady Who made a very good living so he became The he became the house wife and uh and Then he came up I don't know how he came Up the idea to become a knife maker but He happened to ask my opinion and he Came up with this and I said without Rod Doing that I wouldn't I never sat down On a drafting table and drafted a knife And I said Rod make this knife no he Kept bringing knife and asked you know What do you think what do you think so The end result there and it just Happened that my notoriety and uh my uh Insights I I had a knife chapter in Bushcraft Which I published 32 years ago And when that book got into the hands of The most eminent survival instructor in Finland Turku altonen which who I meet met in Uh The conference at Lars Was involved in 1995 but before that
When I booked my book came out Turku phoned me and said you know I must Talk to the person that has such a good Knife chapter because I have not seen in The English language anyone that devoted And yet on the internet there was people Oh 23 Pages uh knives I could live Without daggers well I stopped reading On the internet because there were that would Ryle being a god of their in their lack Of insight This one guy he figured you don't need Any knife training you can just pick it Up naturally well when I was dealing With the thousands of students I saw a Lot of blood and and I couldn't I felt I I don't want to I don't want to defend Myself from an idiot so why should I Answer I didn't bother let It'll take care of itself Yeah the other parts about it and this Is something else that I know some of my Customers complain about every once in a While they because I put a I put what's Called a little what Morse calls a micro Tonto tip on the front and people don't Like that because they they don't tell Me all right but I think it's because They don't like the look of it but the Reason there's two reasons for doing That one is to strengthen the tip Because you're bringing the the tip back And it's very thin especially when it
Comes off my grinder and uh it's very Easy to break that off now Morse Discovered this idea by breaking the Tips off of knives from what he told me And he showed me some demonstration Knives that he had and what happened was He would break him off because the steel That he was using at the time you know Was kind of having to compromise because This idea hadn't come out yet and there Weren't any knife makers making this and So he'd go and take all this time and Sharpen him try to bring that that sharp Tip back well one day he thought well I'm spending a lot of time doing this This is kind of ridiculous how about if I just sharpen the end of that and just Leave it as is and what he found was That all of a sudden he created a second Cutting Edge and basically what that Tonto tip does is give you a gouge so You can actually cut through material This way rather than trying to having it Depend on that so if you're trying to Cut small grooves In a in a you know a stick if you're Trying to cut the hole out when you're Putting a lashing in there for your bow Drill or if you're making a netting Needle something along that lines but Also it like I said it makes it it makes It quite a bit tougher and it does Changes nothing in the carving ability It looks a little bit goofy but you know
What it's it's very functional and so I Do that to all my knives and this one is About an eighth of an inch and I've seen I've taken them back even further than That It's really not a problem but you know To each their own so but I do suggest People doing that especially with a Skinny grind is to go and put that on Their Bush knives As far as the material goes in the Handles I use my car to I pick my card because it's good it's Tough It's inert more or less it's not Affected by you know cold weather rain Anything like that I've had a few Requests for wood but I don't want to Put wood on this because I don't think It's stable enough and tough enough if You're going to be using the Pummel Plate as far as you know pounding on it And using them that way and also wood Eventually can split People notice the number of pins that I've got in here I try to make sure the Handle material is going to stay on it's It's never going to come off but I also Ended up putting The rear pin back here to increase Stability and strength in the back part Of the Of the knife especially again with using The Pummel plate some people want to Have just one lanyard hole I suggest
Going two all the time the first one Doesn't do anything doesn't hurt Anything it just adds a little extra the Knife one more option as far as what You're going to use As far as the sheath goes I use 10 to 12 ounce skirting leather and What's a little bit unique about it is It's is that I followed one of the Traditional Scandinavian style sewing methods I sew It up through the back but it's in a Folded position then I I Water soak it and shape it And I got a tool that creates this Ridge Right here so that it increases some Stiffness in the front part of the Sheath and then after that I'll do a die When I dry it I'll dye it quick and then I'll run it through a molten beeswax and What that does is it it seals up the Leather but it also causes from what I've research I've done it causes the Polymerization of the cell cells inside Of the leather and makes it stiff makes It hard Which is good to have and again like I Said waterproof and you can also form The sheath so that it creates a locking Position that it prevents the blade from Coming out you can still pull it out I went with the neck carry just because That was kind of the traditional method And you know that's what Morse does and
Since I'm a student of his what the heck I'll follow that the knife is a little Bit heavy for that I end up making my Neck cords a little bit thicker and Wider so it's not cutting into the back Of your neck but it can be put on your Belt too you can just take the cordage Slip it behind your belt slip it over do That multiple times so you're basically Creating a prussic knot and that way you Can have it set up just like a dangler That works just fine as far as Maintenance goes just like any other Knife you know it's one of those things That depends on the steel per se but I This one is 0101 A2 or high carbon tool Steels and it's always a good idea to Throw a little bit of oil on there as Far as the oils that I use you can use Vegetable oils I also use baby oil Especially when I'm sharpening stones And it's more of an economic thing with Me honing oil is mineral oil baby oil is Mineral oil but when you buy a can of Honeywell like that for five bucks when I can buy a bottle of baby oil this you Know big for two bucks three bucks it's The same thing and I think the baby also Is being USP certified has been Clarified and cleaned up so you don't Have to worry about any Imperials Getting your skin but I'll just put a Little coating on there quick but as far As stains go I don't worry about that
You know let's just adds to the Character of the knife as far as the Sheath goes you don't have to do much to This if you're using it it stays Burnished like this one thing that Customers have asked about is that They've put it in their dresser which Was a big mistake you need to be using These things but if you put in a dresser And a sensor for three or four months You'll notice a kind of a white frosting Color coming off that and basically what That is is the beeswax it's starting to Crystal over and the easy thing you do Is just grab a hair dryer and just run It on there it all melts it turns back Sheen comes back and it it makes it look New again so or you could use a Cigarette lighter just don't don't Scorch it but just a little bit of heat On there and it Blends all that back Another thing you can do along those Lines if you were having issues with the Sheath are starting to get a little Loose pulling the knife in and out is Pulling the knife out heat it up with a Blow dryer and then press down in this Area just ahead of the front of the Scales You can see where that bump coincides With this bump here on the front of the Scales and by heating that up and then Pressing on that and holding it as it Cools you'll kind of rejuvenate that
That area in there so that you can lock The knife back in Okay well you know when you're a person And this is my opinion and it's it's Fairly biased but narrow Um one thing I did learn in the process Of making their knives you uh you want To come up with what I call the the Knife Triad knife makers Triad or Whatever first of all decide what it's For okay you know and unfortunately a Lot of people think what somebody else Is going to be using things for and when I mention my knives they say oh how's it For skinning well it works good for Skinning it's not a great skinning knife But it works because that's not its Intended purpose even though it's a General purpose knife so you want to Decide on what the knife is for then you Want to have the design match that usage Okay and when you do that then you want To match the steel to the design And then if you're making them yourself Or if you're talking to a Custom Knife Maker at least in my opinion you want to See that they are having the heat treat Match the steel some people that are Just getting started in their garages You know they have their systems their Their quenching in different kinds of Oils and things and they're picking that Stuff up out of you know motor oil or Vegetable oils and that's fine but if
You want to have a a really good product That you're paying good money for you Want to make sure that heat treat is Matched up I follow industry standards As far as the heat treat goes and it's Not it's not magic but it's something That the industry has developed over the Years and spent lots and lots of money So for me to try and come up with some Voodoo magic that back in my garage you Know it's fun but if you really want to Have a serious product you know I think It's better to just follow those three Main points as far as your your choice Of knives [Laughter] [Music] [Laughter] [Music] [Music] [Music] Foreign
